13 comment(s):

i wonder if anyone was praying for Jesus when his temple was destroyed by the evil one?

By  Clint, at 9:07 PM  

I remember Jesus saying something like, "Those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?"

By  Scott, at 11:06 PM  

I don't know. Scott, what does that mean? I'm with Beverly - interesting question. I just think God is love. I don't think He WANTS any of us suffering or hurt or violated, neither child in the scenario nor you and Sam or any other single mother out there. I'm not sure about how any of this works. I just know I feel a tugging on my heart to pray for someone and I do it. What He does with that prayer is up to Him - He's God. I also know I'm grateful when someone tells me they thought about me and said a prayer.

By  Candy, at 5:06 AM  

I think I will have to respectfully disagree with the idea that God does not want any of us to suffer. Well, maybe he does not want us to suffer, but I do not believe that he goes around protecting us from all suffering. It seems to me more that it's a matter of him knowing that we need to suffer sometimes in our lives.

Since our son died despite a multitude of prayers for many years from many, many people, I've thought a lot about this type of thing, Bev, and still do. I don't think praying for someone will automatically keep their home a safe haven or keep them physically safe if someone breaks into their home. It certainly did not keep Peter alive when cancer came for him. Some might say something along the lines of you didn't pray enough, or you didn't pray right - which is an idea you could get from the Old Testament. But, I don't think prayer is a talisman against hurtful things in our lives. I believe it is a way to bring us closer to God, a way to ask his help in growing spiritually and responding to the things life throws us in a way that brings him glory.

By  reJoyce, at 6:41 AM  

clint..yes..

scott...exactly..its sometimes is so clear to me that God is not a respector of persons.

candy..im not sure how it works either ..I guess it seems to bother me when I run in to those who seem to think they to understand how it all works and God told them to turn right at the stop light..

By  Beverly, at 8:43 AM  

Dear Rejoyce, my dear friend whom I have never met...I have secured this box just for you for you have touched my heart this morning.
I think you are right when you talk about suffering. I think we matter to God and what He can do with the pain in our lives is an amazing thing. We get to choose love or bitterness and it is obvious which you have chosen.
I did not know about your son but I did know that you had had suffering in your life. That you had survived something. You have an awareness that alas can only come from one who has walked a rough road. My heart breaks for you.
Suffering has come to mean something to me in these last few months. I have come to know the strength that can come out of suffering and that is where I feel my creator so much. My prayer now is that I might see the suffering ones around me and not be apprehensive to extend my hand in His name. and you are right the key is to open our hearts so that we allow it to be an opportunity to bring us closer to Him.
May I be so bold as to say that their is a common thread that runs through this blogging group. I believe this thread is suffering. I believe that each one of us in our own way have survived something and I think if we all got in a room and shared what that was we would be amazed. Did God bring us all together?..I have to believe so...I love you...

By  Beverly, at 8:57 AM  

rejoyce, it is amassing how much suffering can change your prospective of God

By  Clint, at 8:57 AM  

Beverly, good post...ones that make you think...and has to do with GOD!!!

I was reading all the replies...and Rejoyce said it perfectly. At least that I agree with.

Rejoyce- I'm equally sad to hear of your loss. I couldn't imagine!! For someone who went through that and still remains the same..with GOD, well, you are filled with God's love!!! A true inspiration!! Bless you.
xoxo Dina

By  Dina, at 9:17 AM  

Prayer and suffering.

I know a lot about that too. Why do some live and others die? Where is God when those who suffer "pray?"

Many years ago 10 men with aids were gathered in a room not knowing what was going on. 5 of them were told they were being prayed for by a group of people. 5 were kept in the dark. The men who knew they were prayed for lived 5 years more than those who did not know. Out of the ten of those men who were sick, only one is still alive. ME

What do i know about prayer and suffering? That God hears every prayer. But my faith tells me that God's will be done in all matters and hard as it may be to accept, I believe that when suffering is too much for a "soul" to handle God takes them home where there is no more suffering. That is no consolation to parents or family who loose loved ones. That is no excuse for Prayer and God and suffering. I know.

When Sister Georgette got sick, she prayed and so did I. It was WHAT we prayed for that mattered. God's will be done. She had lived 86 years and it was the end coming quickly. On the night before she died, I was with her and we prayed. Thy Will be Done. She died the next morning. I accepted that it was God's will.

Does prayer LESSEN suffering, no, not for me. BUT it did foster my faith in God no matter what happens to me - I have had 12 more years than expected, I gave back and I still pray, God's will be done.

They say that long term suffering or illness tests the person who is suffering and they either pray and persevere or they give up and they die. Some illnesses we know have no silver lining, no cure, no miraculous Miracle of life. But as long as I have lived with disease I have learned about being

DIS - EASED.

I am at ease with my illness today and I am spiritual to the effect that if I die tonight I have done my best to live the best way I know and God bless Him, who has given me life to live thus far.

I think prayer is the energy to fuel the fire of the question of faith. That we still pray says something after a death of a loved on or a friend. That even after all that pain and even in death, we keep coming back to God praying for understanding and His will.

Prayer can be synonymous with suffering because they go hand in hand. It is IN that Prayer that we learn about God's will be that life or death. I still ask God, why do people suffer? And the answer I keep getting is that I should keep my eyes focused on God and not on the suffering. That through my suffering I am brought closer to God.

After 13 + years living with AIDS I can tell you I know a lot about God, and Prayer and Suffering, But I lived, and all of my friends died. My doctor is apt to tell you that Someone up there must like me. Even this week he commented that If I fell into the sea with my medals around my neck that I wear, my medallions and gifts from the nuns over my lifetime, that I would surely sink from the weight of my prayer medals.

We cannot discount that faith has kept me alive, not to mention the constant prayers of friends and family and the nuns who have cared for me since my arrival in Montreal.

This may be inane discussion, but that is how I understand why suffering is necessary to strengthen the person who is amid the suffering and to show others our strength in the face of adversity. For in that suffering God is RIGHT THERE holding our hands - even at the moment of death.

I know I've sat there when my friends have passed on ... to be graced with the Love of God at the moment of release.

We must keep praying and praying for God's will and our understanding that the example of those who suffer should teach us how to go to our own deaths with courage. Because others have gone before us to prepare the way to the throne of Almighty God.

Whew....
Sermon ended...

The wanabe preacher

at the Evolution of Jeremiah.

By  Anonymous, at 4:53 PM  

I think it all depends on our own choices - and how those choices affect everyone around us.

You choose to surround yourself with people who choose to pray. Therefore, when necessary, prayers are said.

It's all about choice. And it's so much deeper than this, and yet so simple.

By  Shawna, at 5:56 PM  

Not that a person can solve the question of "why do bad things happen?" in a comment box, but I'd like to build on what ReJoyce has said.

One of the most comforting verses in all of scripture to me is Isaiah 63:9 - "In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the angel of His presence saved them; in His love and in His pity he redeemed them; He lifted them up and carried them all the days of old."

I agree that God can do remarkable things with our suffering - that He even allows us to endure it for something better. But while I tend to agree with Candy that God may not want us to suffer, I also firmly believe that He a) cares what is happening to us, b) suffers through our afflictions with us, and c) brings about good from the ashes of despair.

I really don't think that bad things happen because people didn't pray enough or pray well enough. Nor am I inclined to believe that people get better because God has especially trained His mercy on them for some specific reason.

I think terrible things happen. Sometimes they happen by the hands of cruel, selfish, wicked, and horrible people. Sometimes they happen by less explanatory etiology. In either case, I don't believe they come from God.

But when they do, the God who suffered affliction alongside us can and will flex His providential muscles to bring about the very kinds of blessings ReJoyce has so poignantly made clear to us.

I hear people suggest that God stop a certain wrong in our universe. "Maybe God could stop this war," or "Maybe God could stop this particular violent man." I agree that it'd be nice if God stopped evil - from both human and unknown sources. But just where should He stop? God knows that I've done things in my life that have hurt, oppressed, and even damaged others. Shouldn't He have stopped me too? Where should He stop stopping evil?

I for one believe that He will. It'll be a great day - at least for those who long to be with Him. I believe that His love wins in the end. But when He steps in to deliver us from evil, EVERYTHING stops.

Boy, this has turned out to be a longer comment than I originally anticipated, but to bring my comment to a close, I think you're very brave to bring this observation up, Beverly - brave because it forces people to rethink everything we think we know about God. But it's important if we are ever going to get a handle on the question of terrible things happening to those who are prayed for.

By  Scott, at 11:13 AM  

dina..yes, Rejoyce has definately touched us all today..proud to say that she is my friend who I have learned from today.

jeremy..i pray for your health and yes, I feel God holding my hand and you too..thanks for the friend you have been for me at such dark moments..never will be forgotten my friend...

plankton..choices..you are soooo right!

scott..this verse made me cry..Have I ever read it before or is it that it just means so much right now? I'm counting on beauty from ashes...thank you for such powerful words..you should be a preacher or something...

By  Beverly, at 1:03 PM  

Tough set of questions!

"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
(Romans 9:15-16)

It seems to my mind that the Scripture above reveals God's mercy and compassion doesn't require human prayer for His will to include mercy and compassion to some people. But it also seems to my mind that the following Scripture reveals His will in regards to mercy and compassion can be affected by human prayer:

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
(James 5:16)

But as for what my mind thinks, or for that matter what anyother mind thinks on the subjects of prayer and suffering:

"And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know."
(1Corinthians 8:2)

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
(1Corinthians 13:12)

By  Hopalong Cassidy, at 9:27 AM  

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